oh you just should walk up to the servitors/entities
and say

could you go fetch him, Id like to talk.
Tell them, listen, hes on the board with me...
Could you get him

Being in multiple astral places at once.. hard to do
havent been getting much sleep
so just aks them , you'll be suprised.

Hey Guys

Thank you, Anomoly and Andrieh, for always being patient and encouraging with me. There really is no pressure when discussing magick or life topics with you guys and I greatly appreciate this. Much platonic love to the both of you.

It took a while but I've got lucid dreaming down to a science. Escher's painting was a little scary to travel along with the constant changes in physics, but all in all it was a good run. I would have to say I was there for a good length of time, long enough to form a statement of intent and to eagerly search for both of you. Andrieh - you were easy to find, I found you right away but it seemed like your astral body, there in a meditative trance surrounded by entities that must have symbolized servitors that work for you, was empty of your identity. I couldn't talk to you because you would not respond.

Anomoly - you appeared as a black shadow apparition. I sensed that it was you but a "protected" version of you. I couldn't reach you even if I wanted to because something about you was blocking me out.

What I found interesting about this dream is that before and after the Escher scene was chaos: my usual dreaming with numerous people and situations playing out at once on multiple play grounds. Being in the Escher painting was a quiet experience in comparison: much more centered and it seemed that no other entities could enter there besides the folks at the vortex. Now that I know how to get there, I think I can use this as a creative dream space. I didn't think I'd ever make it to the Escher.

Thanks guys *pixel hugs omgz*

Sweet Dreams.

Here is a picture of me. How about everyone upload a picture of their self. This seems like a good place to start. How about we all meet in an MC esher picture? Or a famous piece of art or something. I think it has been hard to decide on a place because none of us have any places of importance in common. So we have to rely on images which are common and every one has access to.

p.s. I am the male in the picture.

Anomaly

Would anyone consider the consumption of Datura seeds for the purpose of lucid dreaming? 3 seeds are used to induce a valuable lucid dreaming experience. Being ingested 40 minutes before bed allows for a good period of meditation about the intent - or even time for a short working.

My dreams have been interesting lately but more distracted than focused. I can't seem to remember what I'm trying to accomplish in these dreams. I believe I have seen Andrieh on occasion as only a cameo appearence. I've been hearing Anomoly as if I were on the phone with him.

Currently I sense others in my dreams but I can't peg a visual or sensory picture of the others - it's like conversations with concepts?? Not a clue how to describe that.

. . .But I am going to see how these Datura seeds work out.

Hey Andrieh,

I have had experiences where the psychic sensor either wakes me up or puts me into a nightmare. I usually go fucking nuts when I begin lucid dreaming and just change everything. I start doing volgar acts of magick like turning people into different people, putting doors where there are none, flying, etc... that might be why.

I had another lucid dream last night, this time with much more control. Solstice and Zero One were there and I tried to reach out to everyone involved in this conversation. I performed two rituals in the dream, one of which took place in a seperate location from where I was. In the dream I explained it as taking place in another dimension. Then I performed a GPR, It was odd performing it in a dream though as I did not have to exhale to make the sounds. This led to shorter vibrations of the vowels and I lost focus as the concentration became deep. I made it through all parts though to my surprise. I then slipped back into a dream and had some pretty intense experiences.

LLL has some cool shit in it dude. There are tons of methods for servitor creation which I have never found in other books and it is definitly a necessary component to the 4th degree. I think Josh was trying to carve himself a little nitch here and he did a good job. I mainly like his attitude, Get laid, get riche and get even.

Are you excited for me Andrieh? venture told me that things are ganna happen soon. Will you be there?

P.S. I have your book bro
Anomaly

I actually mostly think that Josh fucking crapped out on Liber LLL to be honest. A temple isnt that complicated, someone just has to draw it out ( just like I advise in Hands On Chaos Magic, Buy my book :). I specifically did not put dreaming in Hands On Chaos Magic since I didnt think I could do it justice in a few pages. I agree with the notion this is slightly more complex.

I have never had the problem of going to far... but then I have beat the shit of my psychic sensor and mostly believe that shit is possible, and have done so much astral magic, that I am aware that the dream rules are differen tthe the day rules
maybe thats the training purpose ( to make the dream rules different)
so in the dream rules, I can do the things I should be able to do in the real world in the future, ;) like call storms and the like ;)

Well, I did not really use any techniques except for numerous sigils and recording dream signs. The girl in my dream said that she was not really in the room with me. She told me that she was in the next room sleeping. this led me to the thought that I was actually sleeping then I realized I was in dream.

Anomaly

Anomaly,

Cool Beans... What tech did you use to get lucid? or have you been using multiple techs?

So, it has been a while since I started this thread and I have finally got some results from it.

I became aware that I was dreaming last night but it was more controlled than it usually is. I did not want to notify the psychic sensor of my new found dream awareness so I decided (in dream) to make some modest changes. I was seeing through my own eyes in this lucid dream rather than viewing myself in the third person. I turned my head into super mario's head and made this girl whom was in the dream laugh. I proceded through the dream for a while aware of what I was doing until I awoke. This experience has awakened me to the idea of levels of awareness while in lucid dreams. to much awareness and we wake up, not enough and we fall back into a dream state. I have also noticed that there is a issue with sub consicous awareness when lucid dreaming. If we attempt and accomplish things which are grossly impossible than the psychic sensor wakes us up, but if we make modest alterations than we seem to not have a problem. I recorded this result in my dream journal and went back to sleep.

I dig using a created place for this, whats your idea? some sort of temple seems kind of complicated to begin with, how about a forest like zero one suggested I think. I am going to start working on entering a specific dream destination tonight. Dreaming is the shortest section in LLL, but I think it takes the most work.

Anomaly

Ok I am going to reframe this project
so I know exactly what we are working on

OFFBOARD email me, I probbably can get you a site for LaBarge's book ( Bittorrent stuff)

Id like to get down reliable and non-sensical dreamwalking. Metrics for measuring success in this ability, and techniques for doing so.

A complition of Lucid Dreaming techniques from cross cultural sources ( In a certian order), and dream rememberence stuff.

AKA reliable and repeatable techniques for walking into other people's dreams

Dreamscape like ( the movie) control over another person's dream OF COURSE with prior PERMISSION ( which means we have to set up some ground rules)

Dream Ritual design and focus.

I have a couple techniques that deal with Dream Recall, and then hypnotic reconstruction/Astral ( while awake) magical work. This line of experimentation of Hypnotic Regression to dream state and astral/shamanic manipulation of the dream and outcome has proven exceedingly successful ( and I am working on a methodology on how this actually works), but its been HUGELY successful so far.

A compiliation of our relative strengths and weaknesses in this area. For instance I find AStral magic and dream magic to be uniquely similiar
my weakness is remembering the dreams... but I can go lucid pretty quickly in nightmeres, mostly I just sit around talking to stuff, and being like ok whell how would you do that.

Id rather meet at a astral construct that we all have a picture an link for then an actual place, ( my experiemtnation in astral work, and remote viewing is that you can be noticed, by sensitives, so I was thinking more of an astral place we create work on)

I tend to be real anal about metrics of success. And documenting all the different angles, as well as getting down and demonstrating techniques... and repeating the demonstratable techniques.

Actually sounds like a new book :p, but I will credit everyone or we can release it Common Creative Open Source :P

Nomoly dude!

I actually have a difficult time conceptualizing places I haven't been. although I have an idea of the Eiffel Tower, it's kind of a blurry thing. perhaps we can all conceptualize a field, or woods? Something very basic which would not have to be exactly the same for everyone involved. A beach at night with bonfire! :D

I've completely and utterly controlled my ability to have lucid dreams now. My only issue is making sure it lasts for longer than fifteen minutes. When I had no control over lucid dreaming, I would have lucid dreams for unimaginable lengths of time but now that I can call a lucid dream at will, it seems I have little ability to determine the length of a lucid dream... which tends to last between 10 and 30 minutes.

<3 <-- That's fer yew cuz yer suu damn hawt. Happy birthday, my friend.

CHEEEEEEESE

I haven't jumped in because I was still on the fence with it... I started a dream journal and doing lucid dream techs the other night. I'm hoping to create a hand gesture anchor to lucid dreams, but first i have to start having them. lol Its been a long while sense I've jumped into dreams. But I'm interested in the project.

Did you have a nice birthday Anomoly?

Alright Andrieh, you can get some too, but if you get a better model Im ganna be pissed.

I am all about setting up something pertaining to a group working. I think this would be an excellent goad for all parties in gaining some good results.

I had a dream that I killed an entity which was associated with you a few night ago Zero-One. It was a snake creature which I gutted. I am not sure what the creature did or was responsible for but I did sense that it was a threat. (kill first, ask questions later.) It was nothing much to deal with though, I did not even have to summon one of my weapons in the dream which is the usual result when something is mighty. I had this dream after reading over your post and looking at the sigil/entity/Serapis. I have had a strong connection to you since we met so I think that a working like this will be easy for us.

So, how should we set this thing up? Should we all decide to meet at the same place in a dream? the Eiffel Tower comes to mind for some reason. I think that we should gain some results with the working before a temple is set up. (if this result ever comes to fruition.)

I have always received good results with meditating on a desired destination before bed. We could construct a group sigil or psychopomp. I think that we have enough talent involved in this discussion that we could gain some interesting results.

Anomaly

I might summon this entity into a triangle and
I might ask the Serapis, if it can retool itself, asking it what is going wrong here, stating it successful is doing its requested purpose,
but equally excepting its success, and telling the entity what is going wrong, and working with it in a controlled environment to change its impact on you. ( that means a triangle)
Obviously, it is successful, so I would keep it around, just train it to have a different impact, or remove the "sleepnessness" ... which is actually probably more due to the hyperventilation and the information tendancies produced by hyperventalation then the orgasm ( people usually have that post orgasm bliss, that does actually promote sleep).

I might try to re-summon the entity and retool it towards progressive relaxation, while working with it, which would change the associated side effects ( aka YOU have an entity that has a side effect anchor to a hyperventalited state which is like the opposite of sleep).

I dont know if that makes any sense, cause I can clarify.

I started my magical awareness at lucid dreaming, however I was unaware of its magical potential, for it was only astral projection for the sake of it that I was seeking. I haven't did much with lucid dreaming in a very long time, but when I was into it, I was having lucid dreams almost every single night. I wish I would have known about magic back then. But I used two techniques EVERY single night and EVERY time i would nap or sleep. They go as follows.

The first one was mentioned above, simply repeat a mantra as you fall asleep. I use to use "im dreaming" or "im going out of body".
The other one was to visualize myself lifting up out of my body and walking around the house, imagining every detail of my movement, the way the floor feels beneath my feet, the way things look. I would pick things up and set them down, turn on light switches, sit down, stand up, walk through all of my rooms... paying attention to every detail and every sense. I would do this until I fell asleep. The only problem that arises in this process is it seemed hard to get asleep at first because of the conscious concentration taking place. After about two weeks of using them two techs continuously EVERY night the results increased quite rapidly. Also, I would purposely take naps after school ( i was still in high school back then) just for the sake of practicing.

I never did quite have an out of body experience because the fear of what they called the "vibrational state" always led me out of the gnosis. Now i would know that state to be a product of the psychic sensor.

(Keep in mind, my post isn't meant to take over this thread so here is a bit of hopefully-helpful advice for you and perhaps you can help me in return. I did not know if I should make my own thread for this.)

You may have tried this - but perhaps invoking a deity/entity/concept servitor related to the desired result should work..... Mind you, this is probably alot simpler than the methods you have already tried and may not work at all for you.... Let me know what you think?

What I did:
-Intent
-Hyperventilation gnosis
-Request for presence of entity
-Creation of Mantra and Sigil associated with intent and deity
-Charge on orgasm (maybe this is where I made my mistake... as you'll see below)

The Serapis invocation I created worked wonders for this... I have been having alot of progress with lucid dreaming (and OBE) nearly every other night since I did the working. I can enter OBE now on command in the early mornings.

Unfortunately though, I have had many sleepless nights ever since as well. Any suggestion on that front? I've never really experienced any adverse effects from invocation or any other working before but the sleeplessness had me quit my job because I can't seem to function... short of destroying the invocation and the sigil associated.. any ideas???

This is Serapis. Let me know if you'd like the exact invocation, I have completed the write up with directions etc for anyone interested in it....

Try going to bed with a statement of intent (and mantratize that thing and repeat until you conk out). When I was doing that sort of thing (e.g. "it is my wish to learn about X while asleep"), I was getting results (even if they weren't exactly in the manner in which I thought they'd come out), but I was waking up dead tired and if I woke up early or in the middle of the night, I'd have lost everything and got pretty upset.

There is a pretty cool chapter in the Voudon Gnostic Workbook that deals with going to the "dream academy." I've had very good luck with that, though on the surface, it might be more passive than what you're looking for. Like most things in the VGW, though, it can be a lot more complex than it seems. After a couple 'trips' you might have that level of skill and control you're looking for.

So, now it's experimenting with getting visions during those little cat naps that come from popping my insulin levels and/or eating way too many carbs. Wonderful for having visions and inspirations. The hard part, of course, is trying to remember all that stuff when you wake up....

Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming (Mass Market Paperback)
by Stephen Laberge PHD (Author)

Best booik I have read on the subject.