That's a good point, If we spent our practice hours at a gym, or at a shooting range, we would be carrying just as much power (and responsibility) as either of the above. Our choice for the use of our time lends us different skills, so if push comes to shove, I wouldn't shirk from using the talents I'd spent the time to cultivate.

Of course, like a trained martial artist, by the time you know enough to really hurt someone, you usually know enough not to.

Well... some people think they are tuff shit b/c they work out their muscles... As chaos magicians we work out our minds... So would it really be fair for us to go up against someone who might kick our ass? I don't think so. It's just as fair to curse them. We just have the upper advantage of secrecy and not getting punished by the law.

I read a bit on this somewhere, about rage fueled Red Magic and cold impartial Black Magic, I think it was here: http://www.boudicca.de/max1-e.htm

That's the text that first got me thinking about Chaos Magic :D

Thanks 8-)

For me I'd agree- I'd tend to need (and prefer) a focused/controlled rage. (I have a Sekhmet possession ritual that would be great for that actually *chuckle*) However, not everyone would need this (rage). There are those who can work effectively from a place of calm- sort of 'ninja style' in those situations. ;) I think it all depends on the person. Someone- especially with martial arts or military training- would probably not require the rage as their training would facilitate the action easily without it. ;)

Hi Solstice,

Excellent point with the bindings. I once met a pagan who was under the impression that he had received a binding which caused his magic to be ineffective for seven years. I tried to reason with him and change his mind about the scenario. I tried to clue him into the fact that by investing belief in the binding, he empowered it. But I could not shake him free from the belief. I did not invest much time in this endeavor because I did not know him, but the whole thing seemed very silly to me. While the binding which he received did not threated his life, it did threaten his magical progress. I would not consider this magic of the Black Self, but I do think that the sorcerer who placed the binding on him had done a successful bit of Red Magic. Trick the target into disinvesting belief in their own magic, excellent tactic :lol: !!

I can definitely see the scenario with your children being one that is no holds barred. I was more so looking for spells which are designed to destroy the target, I would not consider a spell of binding a malicious intention, unless we bound them from receiving oxygen, lol. I like the point you made about checking whether or not you could do something to them physically before deciding to do something to them magically. I think that it is necessary to have a rage which would facilitate a physical attack in order to strengthen the magical attack. You just gave me a little insight into something Carroll said along the lines of if you can’t do something in the mundane sense then you won’t be able to do it in the magical sense when considering magical attack. Each case should be treated independent of every other. Sometimes what is possible magically is decided by our own guilt, but I could not see any such guilt arising in the scenario with your children, I would even lend my skill to you in that scenario, just thinking about it makes me angry. I have been in magical combat before and I found it surprisingly easy to deal blows, this does not coincide with the subject because the target was of a paranoid magical nature, but this does lend to the point that if the reaction were justified in our minds, then nothing would hold us back. COnscious resistance of the act and all that jazz.

Thank you solstice, you have posted some quality responses. Much appreciated

~Anomaly~

The way I see it is that if someone is going to be a problem to me or mine in a manner that causes mundane methods of dealing with them to be either impossible or not ideally effective- (or I doubt that mundane methods will be wholly effective) I will use whatever tools I have in my tool box to stop the problem- and depending on my annoyance level- to teach a lesson in the process so that they don't have the idea that they can continue to be a problem in other ways later on. If someone comes after me with intent to harm my children, for instance, I don't care whether they believe in magic, Santa Clause or even gravity itself- I will do everything I can to bury them using whatever means necessary. If that paralyzed person were doing something that threatened the safety or me or mine- particularly my children? I'm not going to go easy on them physically or magically due to their physical condition. They made the choice to take threatening action and therefore my response is the consequence of that action. I would hope I'd never have to go there- but there are some situations where I can see it as not being against my code of ethics. Do I think it's always a great idea? No- and I'm not a big fan of cursing anyone and everyone who happens to piss you off. But I also can't say across the board that I see a problem using magic against non-magical persons as a rule. Basically I view magic the same as I view mundane action- would I do something that would have equal effect in a mundane sense if I could? If the answer is yes- I have no problem using magic to deal with it.

I think here you also have to define what a curse is... Some people include binding into the family of 'curse work'- if ones definition of 'curse' includes binding- I think ALOT more people will likely view it as acceptable regardless of the magical inclination of the target...

Great topic!